Is this a fangame?
That's right. It's a traditional fangame, like 2kki or Dream Graffiti. You go into a dream world, collect effects, wake up if you get stuck or want to save, rinse and repeat.
Nothing talks to you, no beating you over the head with DEPTTHHHHH, just wander and enjoy. When the first version comes out.
Is the soundtrack going to be more like it was in Nightmare Castle or closer to what we heard in Amihailu in Dreamland? I’m asking because AiD had a really nice soundtrack while the soundtrack in NC wasn’t too exciting.
Anyway I’m still looking forward to it.
Neither. It's more like the cancelled Nightmare Castle
redux, which uses a PC-98 music format. See here: http://chipmusic.org/NoyemiK/music/intro_ntm
I got a number of emails over the years about NC, and some of the recent ones mentioned the feeling of uncovering some undocumented civilization lost to history. I thought it was a pretty neat intepretation of such a clumsy game, so the idea to sort of revisit YNFGs again was in the cards for at least a few months.
I just started work on this one yesterday so I don't want to raise the hype too high, but it's coming together extremely quickly. I'm also hoping to show a few things that FGs don't usually have (using just the event system for effects of course)
i like how the character sprite looks.
Feels less pudgy than the other YN fangames
It's a good thing I did the Revival Hell Diary music with FM synths to begin with, because it survived the translation to PC-98 format when I went to write the MML.
It has a slightly different feel from the RHD version, landing somewhere square between that one and the original.http://delmunsoft.tumblr.com/post/159525391913/its-an-opn3-version-of-the-revival-hell-diary
Amihailu in Dreamland was a lot of fun and I can't wait to see what this brings!
This is sort of a gripe I have with many of your games, and I realize it's in part because of your style, but I'd really like to see more difference in how the various locations look. Especially the indoors locations look very samey.
Say no more fam. This game has more outdoor regions than Nightmare Castle
had, I've just been trying to show screencaps of only one or two areas to keep from spoiling things.
b-b-b-but it's tradition!!
Seriously though, I'm a seasoned dev. I released 4 finished games already (two of which were considered Gold when I released them) so I think my game thread is probably the wrong place to complain about something I've never done myself.
By gold I mean as in 'gold master', a finished release. Not as in reception (nobody plays my fucking games, not enough edge and blood lol)
i wasn't really referring to you, but devs as a whole
since this is the most active (and recent) fg thread on a FG that's gonna get released 0.00 i just decided to post here
There is a thread on this very board specifically for complaints about the fandom and the games, see >>12161
Everyone was asking for traditional fangames with no or few Ib-clone frills, or at least a new breath of life for this neglected part of the fandom—I'm trying to provide and make something different than what I've been making for the past 4 years because I want to do it and I think ubuu's fg players deserve at least a little bit of what they're asking for
v0.00 is out:https://noyemi-k.itch.io/dugashoba
I took a hiatus as long as the time I'd spent working on it and decided to spiffy it up real quick.
It has all 4 nexus doors, 2 effects, and an event. I don't have as much time as I'd like to donate to making the best 0.00 ever, but nevertheless, I hope you like it
Solid start for a YNFG.
Also thank you SO MUTCH for keeping VXs dash button intact. Every single fangame should let you start with a proper walking speed right of the bat. But instead they blindly follow the tradition of forcing you to find a specific effect first.
Speaking of effects, the instructions mention that you press A to perform an effects action. But after some fiddling with my keyboard I found out that the gun gets only activated if I hold down C for a moment. There is this weird thing where VX games, when installed on a different computer, sometimes don’t have the buttons assigned to the specific actions they were originally set to. It also happened with a game I once made in VX. I designed it so a specific event would happen when the C button was pressed. But once the game was released people told me they needed to press the A button instead.
Do you have a different language layout (like the French AZERTY or similar)?
I do actually. I’m using a German keyboard. But I’ve set it up so that I can switch between keyboard layouts on the fly. For games I usually switch to an American layout.
I went back to do some more testing and it turns out both the A and the C key both work regardless of what keyboard layout I use. Initially I expected that just tapping A would be enough. But since that didn’t do anything I tried other buttons and eventually found out that holding C works. After that I jumped to the conclusion that C must be the only button to trigger effect actions. Sorry for the unnecessary confusion.
Ah, I see. I added a small delay (you have to hold the key) in order to keep the game from retriggering the key constantly, since it has no "key released" check. One of the many off-pissing things about RMVXA
You could create your own ‘key released’ checker with some fancy switch management. It could look something like this:
-drawing gun event flips another switch on.
-retracting gun event is blocked until the switch is off again.
-flipping switch on triggers a parallel process which checks if a gun button is currently pressed.
-If the button is still pressed the switch stays on.
-Otherwise it gets flipped off.
In theory this could make sure the gun cannot get constantly drawn/retracted without releasing the key at some point. Tough I haven’t tested if this works in practice.
could do that, but it seems like a lot of work for something that was in 2k3's event commands and should have been in this one in the first place
I want to bust a nut in this girl's throat if you catch my drift.
So this is how games get popular.
Your stuff always looks so nice.
The image in >>12239
is messing me up. Is the hallway to the right on an above or below level in relation to the hallway to the left? The stairs tell me it's above, but the back stairs tell me below. This is not a complaint, I actually like it and think it adds to the dream logic, I just wanted to know if it was intentional.
>>12405>intentional optical trick?
Yep! It's an illusion that takes advantage of the projection. It makes it seem like you're climbing a staircase forever, which has the added bonus of letting me expand the number of connections and objects seamlessly on the fly as you ascend floors. Pic related.
These two images show the exact same part of the same map—one of floors 0 and 1, and the second of floor 2+ (there's no way to go beyond 2 without cheating, however)
Version 0.01 is out!
Changes in this version:
+Added 2 new effects
+Expanded each of the nexus worlds to one or two extra layers of explorable depth
+New lighting and NPCs
+New characters in the syllable table
*Changed STAIR music
*Fixed a bug where leaving the shooting range would cause the song to reset
*Changed the 'Conjurer' NPC to reflect the ghost it summons
*Added the ability of the 'Conjurer' effect to summon the friendly ghost with the 'A' key
You can get it here -> http://www.mediafire.com/file/2c5am2xevxer6zg/DuGaSHoBa_001.exe
I played it for around 20 minutes and I think I probably found most of the locations. I got some thoughts and questions.
-How do you actually use effects, if you can? I tried pressing every single keyboard button, and nothing. My poor pistol itches for action.
-Speaking of effects, I think they should change the sprite more. The TV-Idol got it right, the Scout and Conjurer is honestly pretty dull as far as effects go. Maybe they are more exciting if they have some use, but since I can't find the key for it, right now I can only judge by the visual change.
-The music makes it feel like a fighting game in some areas. For example the hub music is exactly what you would hear on the title screen of old fighting games. If the mood you want is that, I guess mission accomplished. Personally I think a mellower bgs would fit better in many areas.
-The outdoors areas are great, more of those.
-The indoors areas are often kinda samey, put more windows, strange machines, weird furniture and stuff in them. Try to make them less "corridory" and less square. Some of them are good though, mostly the ones with a identifiable theme, like the one with the flames for example.
The effects get used with the 'A' key. Keyboard layouts for different languages might F that up a bit though, so it's whatever key is mapped to the 'X' button in your Ace install.
owo this seems interesting
Is this just another walking simulator fangame or does it have something in it?
As of 0.01 it has shooting (with the gun effect) and some other interactive goodies my previous games lacked.
I'm not quite satisfied with VX Ace though, so right now I'm making an entirely new version of the game in a different engine with the assets I've made up to now for the game.
I don't want to spoil too much about the new engine changes, but I'm basically redoing the gameplay from the ground-up with some features suited to surreal exploration in mind.
Action packed dream adventure with guns blazing?
>>12543>some other interactive goodies my previous games lacked
Gee, I sure would love more interactivity in my dream diaries. Forget having interesting and expressive visuals, forget telling a story without using words (or symbolism™), forget trying to make something truly confsing and bizarre, go for more interactivity! Remember, it's not a poor man's RPG, it's totally a dream diary! Oh boy, every damn time.
You're sarcasm actually reeks truth. OP forget falling for the same flavors done over and over again among the YN fangames. Take this man's suggestion and branch out. A YN-fangame themed SOMETHING ELSE.
All I'm saying is that you can't have your cake and eat it, OP is saying they're making a classic-style dream diary, yet neither the visuals nor the gameplay descriptions ﬁt that model. And if it's actually a no-dialogue RPG of sorts, then the traditional YNFG conventions like a messy perspective or looping empty worlds are not gonna ﬂy.
And last but not least, I hate these checkered patterns. Can't you see how abrasive on the eye they are yourself?
Not sure what all the hostility is about. It's not clear what you want or expect out of this game that you haven't even played. 0.00 and 0.01 were an iteration on *Nightmare Castle* with a slightly different style and more interactivity, and right now I'm working on a technical upgrade that'll let me do whatever I want for gameplay.
You can play what I have (or pass on it), but I'm really not in the mood to hear yet another unappreciative nu-ubuu try to flex their oversized ego at me.>>12546
I distinctly recall a lot of ubuu folks lamenting the lack of traditional fangames, so I made one with some personal spin on it. Now that the fandom's died down a little bit again, I'm taking the opportunity to build a new experience from the ground up (on the technical side, that is).
I'm not really taking any suggestions about what I should and shouldn't do and what I should change, since I've already made the decision to make some bold gameplay changes that will probably render the feel unrecognizable from this version, at least to a point.
Hostility is for emphasis mostly, to better drive home the point that your game design lacks direction and your artistic sense is questionable. But I guess you won't care either way, so that'll be that.
>I'm really not in the mood to hear yet another unappreciative nu-ubuu[…]
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize how much of a service to the community you are doing by advertising yourself and your unreleased game. My bad.>[…]try to flex their oversized ego at me.
Yeah, right, that kettle is deﬁnitely black, no doubt about it.
It's linked above actually.
>Questionable artistic sense
haha. Do tell me all about something ELSE you barely understand. I'll wait.
Fine, scratch that "unreleased" and make it "early beta release". My point about your advertising still stands.
>haha. Do tell me all about something ELSE you barely understand. I'll wait.
I think I have better things to do than to entertain a smug tumblr artist who thinks that the overuse of maroon and huge checkered tiles covering most of the screen is an acceptable design. After all, in inferior mind like myself just wouldn't UNDERSTAND, right?
A lot of people like my art and follow my games for it, so it must be bad. Sure, whatever.
Next time, try it with someone who's actually as green as you think they are.
Ah, the timeless "million ﬂies" argument. A true classic.
I'm not that anon but, that's not a great point, a lot of people like Homestuck and Yandere Simulator too. There must be something else about your art, like the clean pixels, or anatomy maybe?
Eh, I know it's not the greatest of justifications but I'm kinda past the point of wanting to flex my muscles all that hard on a dead image board. It'd be even more cringe than the exchange above. I just don't care what that anon thinks, which should be end of story.
He came here to be a dick, and he's going to be as dickish as possible no matter what proof is out there about my work or career status, or whatever.
Getting back to serious biz, 0.03 will be the last public release of the game before the finished product and 0.02 is an internal milestone version for marking the progress of the engine port as being complete. It'll probably get to 0.02 pretty quick because I'm keeping the same tiles and adding maybe a couple of new animations for Maho and NPCs (or new frames for existing animations).
For the curious though, here's a list of features I'm adding to the game on the technical side:
+ Custom text renderer for making pixel-perfect Galwi and English (system) text (done)
+ Performance upgrades, broader choice of game resolutions (done)
+ New UI (mostly done)
+ Loads of new and improved animations
+ Pixel movement (done)
+ New map projections ("diamond"-dimetric, isometric)
+ Actual no bullshit stairs, a Z-axis for bridges and cliffs
+ Multiple parallaxes
You kinda do flex your muscles on here though. You have a note of arrogance and tend to talk down to other devs. And even devs of giant indie games don't call themselves seasonded devs because doing so would be arrogant.
The main criticism I have about your art style is that you haven't improved at all in years. Art is supposed to be constant improvement, otherwise you can get left behind. You also only draw faces from the same angle, half side half front facing. And you got sameface going on too.
I will say your pixel work is nice, its some of the nicest I've seen in a fangame, but, your art definitely needs some work, try breaking your rules sometime, maybe try drawing someones face from the side, or front facing, or, make their faces look more unique.
Just try something new sometime, its been years since you have, I don't remember you ever improving in your art since I first saw it.
I just seem arrogant to some people because I don't take shit.
But if you want to turn this into art critique station, here
1. old, but clearly a frontview
2. also old, but clearly a sideview
3. not a character
4. front-view from an old illustration
5. not a character
6. new, clearly a frontview
So it's not true that I "don't try anything new", I just focus on pinups nowadays because I rarely posted any large artwork for the past few years. I'm not incapable of sideviews, or hands, or feet, or any of that other stuff, I just don't draw terribly often.
Not taking shit isn't arrogance. Arrogance is having an inflated view of yourself and looking down onto others. And I didn't mix up the definition, by arrogant I mean you call yourself a seasoned dev and show off while bringing to lights the flaws of other devs.
Dude chill, you're derailing the thread at this point, this thread is about the game.
You might be getting confused there when I call myself that.
It doesn't mean I think I'm untouchable and it doesn't mean I can't ever be wrong. It just means that I've either made or worked on a number of games for a while. A really long while, comparatively. You wouldn't call someone who's worked on 2 or more big commercial releases arrogant for calling themselves a seasoned dev, so what about that makes me arrogant when I have about as much experience? I have a game on steam, another game that I published elsewhere, and I've been on the staff of various commercial games as a composer, a general audio engineer, or that I provided graphics programming to (shaders, etc.)
- I don't post here to shit on other devs (as much as you might think that—it's not shitting on someone to give pointers). There's been a good deal of new life in the fangame community, but somehow it hasn't spread here.
- I don't post here to get shit on. With all due respect, having self esteem for once isn't a crime.
tl;dr: please stop shitting up my thread with projecting insecurity and hatred at me. It's not funny or clever or warranted. I don't mind getting some constructive feedback on the game and stuff like that, but I don't have to listen to everything that gets suggested because then I wouldn't ever have a game.>>12561
Any thoughts on the update plans? It'll probably take a month or so until the next public update.
yeah how dare they not make another uninspired and forgetful yume nikki recolor that's just big empty maps with landmarks lazily and aimlessly strewn about
because that's what we need. ANOTHER one of those. for the hundredth time
do you seriously prefer shitty derivation over substance
It's a wash. I'm not posting any more updates to this thread.
Well, gee, boss, I dunno. Maybe it's because the author said >>12166>It's a traditional fangame, like 2kki or Dream Graffiti
But, nah, I must've imagined it.
>do you seriously prefer shitty derivation over substance
I prefer a non-shitty derivation, thank you very much. The fact that the Western devs can apparently only produce shitty ones is a whole different story.
ok but you still have the belief that a yume nikki fangame needs to be the exact same experience as the original, as if it should be treated as an archetype. it was that idea that generated the hundreds of shitty fangames that lack substance btw. it's like you value conformity over artistic integrity
I'm not sure to whom are you exactly talking, but what I've been saying is that the core of a good dream diary should be expressive and interesting visuals. I consider it that way because:
a) it's the hardest thing to do properly
b) it allows for by far the most variation
c) it makes for the most memorable experience, if the Yume Nikki phenomenon itself is anything to go by.
It's no secret that most devs suck at it, but does that mean the style itself is wrong? That's a rather conceited approach, won't you agree?
And in regards to OP it's not even that, it's the fact that they talk the talk of a classic YNFG, but walk the walk of a new age pseudo-RPG derivation. Shooting a gun from a distance? I guess that's cool, but what does it add to the game? How does it make it any more memorable or exciting?
I'm just saying, nobody's stopping you from making, say, a regular RPG but with twisted worlds of a dream diary instead of conventional ones. OFF did something similar to that, and it got pretty acclaimed as a result. But if you insist on staying within the dream diary genre, you have to follow certain principles. Lest you produce more worthless unmemorable crap.
the style itself is not "wrong", i think yume nikki did it well. everyone plagiarizing for their own game is "wrong", in that it lacks substance. there's no artistic integrity in that.
yes, non-shitty derivations do exist. there are maybe 2 yume nikki cookie-cutter games that i've enjoyed, because they were well made derivations. but what i mean to say is that we don't need any more. there's maybe 5 of these types of fangames that are worth playing if you REALLY want to experience them all. and for the few that are worth playing there are hundreds of forgettable ones. there has to be a point where we've seen enough of these, because the more and more that are created as carbon copies the more it retracts from the substance of the genre as a whole, and it becomes a genericism. it's important to also value innovation
It doesn't have to be a legit "plagiarizing" necessarily. It might be just a new spin on a familiar concept, like a remix.
Consider the classic event, Aztec Rave Monkey. Many games have their own takes on it:
Lcd Dem/Yume Nisshi: a box in a dreary area, which fades the screen to black and then plays a flashing animation. That's very much a plagiarism, which is bad.
Yume 2kki: a random event in a speciﬁc location which is supposed to be a TV broadcast. It's recognizable, but it's put in an entirely different context, which gives it a whole new feeling.
Or, say, Kalimba channel. The equivalent from Yume Grafﬁti is more or less a carbon copy of it, but because it's heavily set in the the game's speciﬁc and rather iconic style, it ultimately ﬁts the game just ﬁne.
I never said I was against inovation, it's just that I want this innovation to happen in the ﬁeld of visual style. Expressionism (and YN is a heavily expressionist game) is a pretty limitless genre, and the fact that people choke on it so hard is just a testament to how terribly low their creativity is. And carbon copies are just that, I really don't think we should legitimize them by saying they damage the overall substance.
itt: entitled moron derails thread asking why a game developer won't follow their made up rules
this place is a damn dump
although, noyemi did react in a pretty stupid way, don't want to defend that. but the anon's complaints were still unfounded.
>>12575>this place is a dump
For the opinion of a single user who most probably isn't even a regular? Why the generalization?
For me, it seems the faggot holds a grudge against mish and both are retards for actually engaging on this bullshit here. There's a reason mails exist, and if you like being a drama queen there's tumblr.
>>12574>this place is a damn dump
Well, good thing we have you, such an insightful and profound commenter.
>why a game developer won't follow their made up rules
You wanna talk about it or did you just come to whiteknight for the OP? Also I don't exactly see how giving feedback about a game derails a thread about said game.
I feel as if a demon has infiltrated my abode. Since this thread is already derailed and op fucked off, i'm going to spew my own thoughts on this whole subject matter. From what I played Dugashoba is one, unique and two, kind of boring. I know it's unfair of me to say that about an unfinished product, but a lot of it feels kind of samey and hollow. It's more, "realistic", visual style is actually a detriment to the integrity of the, "bizzare factor". Personally, I think the only kind of people who are capable of making a game like yn are weird and fucked up, not random tumblr artists. Does Kikiyama have a tumblr page where they publicly display their work? No. In a hypothetical scenario where somebody made the holy grail of fan games, they would probably start a thread with a single picture and a link to the download. That's it. That's exactly what I would expect from the kind of person who is mentally up to the task. Dugashoba just doesn't stab me in the heart like it should. Lcd dream simulator proves that making a game with a similar feeling to yn is possible. It's proof. The visuals and the everything being just out of understanding's reach. Lcd doesn't even have the same kind of gameplay(effects) as yn, but it still feels closer than most fangames. Duganshoba gave me slight feelings of a barren world while yn felt like I was all alone, but surrounded by something unexplainable. It should be scary and confusing and all of that comes from visuals. If somebody couldn't direct a spooky movie with that kind of feeling, they can't make a game with it either. It's all about art direction and visuals. YN wasn't a game like people typically think of them. It was different. That's part of what made it so great. As soon as you start trying to make your fangame more like an, "actual", game and not an experience, you failed. Let's analyse the difference between the knife and the gun. What did the knife do? It killed things. This partially had a use in exploration, but it mainly gave you a sick feeling in your stomach. What does the gun do in DS? It kills things just the same, but it's more complicated. You have to aim. The knife is very simple. It represents killing. It could have been a box-cutter or a baseball bat or a golf club. You killed things exactly like how you would interact with them any other way. It was just that, an interaction, not a "gameplay mechanic". Dugashoba goes in the direction of a real game. It tries to make killing fun. This is doing it wrong. Another aspect of yn was how lovable the weird npcs are. They weren't just scary. You kind of liked them. They were creative and despite not speaking they had personality. They were living, but they weren't living. They had feelings, but they didn't have feelings. That's why so much art gets made of them. They have layers and layers of intrigue. Can you see anybody making any art of Dugashoba's npcs? No.
>>12576>and if you like being a drama queen there's tumblr.
Like we haven't had an awful share of drama here.
>>12579>It tries to make killing fun. This is doing it wrong.
How is making something fun to play wrong? You're talking as if Yume Nikki was flawless, it's not.>>12574
Why the hell are you here then?
It's wrong because it's counter intuitive to making a game with the same feeling as y. Yn being flawless or not is irrelevant. The point of making a fan game is recreating the experience of playing yn for the first time while giving something different. If you want to make something fun, make a game. It you want to make something in lieu of yn, make it like yn.
And we had a lot more people back in the day too. But now we don't, so instead of filling a thread with ego battles it'd be more useful to simply talk about game development, don't you agree?
>>12582>The point of making a fan game is recreating the experience of playing yn for the first time while giving something different.
There's a little flaw in your argument, namely that which I'm quoting. According to you, a fangame tries to replicate the original, but this isn't necessarily true. There are many fangames, very popular even, that don't necessarily are the same thing as the original (just look at touhou and you will see more bullshit than just danmaku). Even yume nikki has a castlevania clone, and just because it isn't made with rpgmaker doesn't make it any less of a fangame than, say, lcd.
You seem to assume that a fangame is a copy of sort of the original, but actually anything derived/and or with correlation to the original game fits the definition of fangame. Now, I do admit that some people push the limits way too off (fleshchild, for example), however I haven't played this game so I can't argue you whether it is doing that or not.
>>12582>The point of making a fan game is recreating the experience of playing yn for the first time while giving something different
Autistic screeching from the "innovation" crowd incoming.
>>12584>According to you, a fangame tries to replicate the original, but this isn't necessarily true.
There are virtually countless mediocre RPG Maker 2000/2003 games, and yet Yume Nikki somehow caught on and achieved a cult classic status. Say you're trying to follow in its footsteps and make a game similar to it. Wouldn't you try to replicate the elements that made it stand out in the ﬁrst place?
And the Touhou example doesn't really ﬁt, cause it wasn't the game itself that people liked, it was the characters. Therefore as long as said characters are involved, a Touhou fangame can be just about anything conceivable. Obviously, this is not the case for Yume Nikki.
>>12582>The point of making a fan game is recreating the experience of playing yn for the first time while giving something different.
It's not…I could make a danmakufu script with YN characters and call it a fangame if I wish.
It's a fan made game, something you make to display some kind of appreciation for the source material, it doesn't need to capture the original "magic" or anything like that.
Browse fangames of other franchises, hell, Touhou has everything from platformers to pong games.
>>12586>There are virtually countless mediocre RPG Maker 2000/2003 games, and yet Yume Nikki somehow caught on and achieved a cult classic status. Say you're trying to follow in its footsteps and make a game similar to it. Wouldn't you try to replicate the elements that made it stand out in the ﬁrst place?
This isn't making a fangame, this is making a copy. That's the difference I'm talking about.
>And the Touhou example doesn't really ﬁt, cause it wasn't the game itself that people liked, it was the characters. Therefore as long as said characters are involved, a Touhou fangame can be just about anything conceivable. Obviously, this is not the case for Yume Nikki.
My point with touhou was that it didn't need to be the same genre/style to be considered a fangame. I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that caslevania clone IS a yume nikki clone regardless of the gameplay, mechanics, story, or engine.
And as pointed out by >>12587
if I made a danmaku fangame using YN characters it is still a fangame. Or even a bizarre dungeon crawler focused on exploration and graphics and dream-like scenery, and it would be as good as any other fangame. Hell, EVEN BETTER than other RPGmaker bullshit.
Touhou and Yume Nikki are not the only games that have fangames that vary a lot in style, Danganronpa, Dragon Ball, Final Fantasy, Pokemon, and many others do too, you can't tell me they are all about the characters.
>>12588>This isn't making a fangame, this is making a copy.
Uh, no? If you create an original world with original characters events that still invokes the same feeling as those Yume Nikki did, does that mean you've copied YN? That doesn't make sense.
Well, I guess if we're being overly technical. it's true: anything can be a fangame. But not anything can be a *decent* fangame, and this is where the stuff I've outlined comes into play.
>>12590>If you create an original world with original characters events that still invokes the same feeling as those Yume Nikki did, does that mean you've copied YN? That doesn't make sense.
It may have an original world, with original characters, and original events, but it is still copying Yume Nikki's mechanics, style, and format. I'm not saying it's a carbon-copy and everything is literally
the same, I'm just saying that in our community we're more used to this kind of fangame where you aim to copy that which made YN great, but most just end copying elements and not carrying any of that "magic" you just felt with YN. "Wow, great, another neon world". "Look! how original, another snow world". "Oh look a light switch, gee I wonder what it does?". These were solid points we made back some time ago about why YN fangames weren't fun anymore.
This led us to other problem though: when people make things that deviate too much from this formula and don't feel "fangame"-ish anymore. Take fleshchild, for example, I hated it. It was a game on its own claiming to be a "fangame" of sorts, when you can only claim it is influenced by YN, at most. It didn't even feel like something related to YN at all. I think this is your problem with this game. Again, I haven't played it so I can't talk about how it feels or not "related to YN", however it does claim to be A Yume Nikki styled game
, though "more along the lines of Nightmare Castle than Hell Diary or Amihailu in Dreamland", both of which I didn't like and had this problem, in my opinion.
>But not anything can be a *decent* fangame, and this is where the stuff I've outlined comes into play.
What is a *decent* fangame, then? It could be the shittiest, most bugged thing I ever played but if it actually entertained me and I enjoyed it more than others then I would claim it is pretty decent as a *fangame*.
the things that make a fangame successful depends on the person experiencing it
let's look at the 2 most popular fangames, 2kki and flow
while someone who loved 2kki probably likes flow, their idea of an ideal fangame might be different from someone in the opposite viewpoint
Let's look at the main differences and trivia between them:
- The first(?) fangame to be ever created, spawned off 2chan and is worked on by a constantly changing small team
- Is a Yume Nikki "successor", with the Yume 2kki pun and the way most things are designed
- Polished as fuck in way of graphics and presentation, save for some worlds
- World is absolutely huge, the game is dead set on exploration
- Has its fair share of dark/light/neutral areas
- Mood of the game is slightly ligther than Yume Nikki and feels more recreational
- Gotta catch 'em all! Wallpapers, effects, menu themes and music!
- The game just rolls with Urotsuki's fucked up dreams as seen by the endings
- Urotsuki's dreamland doesn't feel coherent, owing to the multiple developers. For some this is a good thing (it IS a dream after all) and for some it's a negative
- Continued until everyone crashes and fucking dies
- Overall feels like a fun wonderland
- Also one of earliest fangames, made by a single person who is a huge westaboo
- Is a Yume Nikki fangame but derives more into its own territory (some have mixed opinions on it: http://archive.uboachan.net/flow/res/701.xhtml
- Not much in the way of polish for most of the early worlds and presentation/animations. lol's art is ZUN-tier so he can't use it like how 2kki used artwork. Some worlds (mostly those added on the last updates) do have an element of polish but it's nothing compared to Wataru.
- IIRC, world is actually slightly SMALLER than Yume Nikki. It also follows a very intertwined map design with shortcuts everywhere.
- The whole game is moody from the start to finish. The game does try to moderate the overall apathy with some bittersweet/calming areas to avoid the Crawling in my Skin factor (still affected by it)
- Not much in the way of collectible or goodies, has some randomized stuff there and there though
- The "plot" is a clusterfuck when you consider the endings (which questions the reality of everything seen before it). Without the endings, Sabitsuki is just this moody kid with fucked up tendencies (like 2kki, LCD and YN) but with the true ending stuff runs deeper. Most people say it's the FG with most "plot"
- .flow is cohesive as fuck since it's made by 1 guy. All the areas, BGM's and characters lead up to one another
- Updated until lol moved to new and better things
- Oddly has more memes
- Feels like more of a journey, most late areas are grounded in realism or industrial areas
See where i'm getting at? I know it seems like im describing the fangame-y parts that can differ but that's not what i mean. I bring you my opinion (more like a weird conspiracy theory) on why the western scene is the way it is. Have you ever wondered why .flow is the most popular FG in the west aside from the edgy horror game thing? Because it stands out on its own (for a variety of reasons, mainly whatever story it is trying to achieve and cohesion), that's why most western FG's (albeit most of them shitty) try to have something to "stand out" instead of being like 2kki and being inherently linked to the YN formula (which .flow applied to a lesser extent) while most jap FG's maintain the formula (2kki is the most favored FG there for obvious reasons)
I'm not saying 2kki is not it's own game or some cloudcuckooland Oreko did 9/11 stuff, but if you can link the dots there and there i'm sure you can reach a conclusion
I might continue this weird conspiracy post on the FG scene but i can't wrap my thoughts around it as 2 whole hours have passed with me thinking about pretty much everything that contributes to FGs and lurking while making this post
Also to all these fags arguing about fangames, look at Dream vs Dream and that weird platformer where you play as Poniko
there is also a thread specifically meant for FG ranting >>12161
>>12590>it's true: anything can be a fangame. But not anything can be a *decent* fangame
Oh please, they can have something different than a nexus and dream exploration and be great.
Just tell me Elysium City and Divinity Fatum are not fucking awesome.
>>12592>It may have an original world, with original characters, and original events[…]>"Wow, great, another neon world". "Look! how original, another snow world". "Oh look a light switch, gee I wonder what it does?"
Hold on, you're either making something original or you're copying Yume Nikki's designs. What you're describing doesn't sound original at all.
>These were solid points we made back some time ago about why YN fangames weren't fun anymore.
I still think it's just the authors being shit at what they do, I mean, look at Yuque. It's a recent fangame, it's as classic as it gets, but it's also pretty acclaimed. Perhaps it's not the style that is at fault.
>however it does claim to be A Yume Nikki styled game, though "more along the lines of Nightmare Castle than Hell Diary or Amihailu in Dreamland", both of which I didn't like and had this problem, in my opinion.
Well, it also claims, and I'm honestly sick of bringing it up at this point:>It's a traditional fangame, like 2kki or Dream Grafﬁti.
I thought to myself, "Wow! A fangame that actually focuses on creating atmosphere and exploration!" But apparently it isn't, nor does the author have any intent to make it so. Which kind of let me down, cause there's honestly enough fangames that ignore the whole atmosphere/mystery thing.
>What is a *decent* fangame, then?
Different strokes, but for me it's just something that focuses on exploration, unique visuals and atmosphere. Incidentally, that's also the rarest breed of a fangame by far.>>12594
Hey, never said they weren't, okay?
I think I should elaborate more on what I meant by, "fangame". There's two types of fangame. One kind is anything that involves the characters of the original. A beach volley ball simulator with characters from yn would be considered this type. The second kind tries to, "recreate", the original and is much harder to pull off successfully. Nobody would make an rpg with a lot of random girls with silly hats based on Japanese and other eastern myths and call it a Touhou fangame if it didn't include any touhou characters. If instead of an rpg, the game was in the bullet-hell genre, it could be considered a fangame. Let's pretend that the idea of a dream diary game where the mc goes into a dream world and goes on adventures was as massively popular and common as schmups. Just like how touhou 1 isn't considered to be an Arkanoid fangame, most dream diary games would't be considered yn fangames. So what would make something a yn fangame in this scenario? More importantly, what would make something considered to be a good fangame? Just like in my touhou example, a bullet hell game with girls in silly hats based eastern myths shares a lot of superficial similarities with Touhou which is technically enough to call it a fangame. Whether that game would be considered a successful fangame or not depends on how well it achieves what Touhou achieved, or at least has the qualities to achieve. Now, if you were to apply this to yn, a fangame in the second category would be considered successful if it achieves what the original did. Dugashoba is in the second category and I feel that no, it does not meet the criteria. What makes it a yn fangame is purely superficial qualities. There's a lot of walking. Check. There's effects to collect. Check mark. Snow world, double check. Weird transition between real world and exploring one. Check. Top-down perspective. Check check check check check.
Now, let's take the red pill and go even deeper. I personally feel that what makes a good fangame is less about the similarities to the original, and more about what could be different while still keeping true to the original. Stuff like walking a lot and having tons of stuff to find are necessities, sure, but what could be changed? The first and most obvious is art style. The second is what you're looking for. In yn it was effects, but being able to find anything else that changes the way you can play the game would work just as well. The third thing I can think of is exactly what the end goal is. A yn fangame with a slightly different perspective and art style where instead of trying to find effects, you were just looking for random items that would help you reach certain areas and instead of trying to find effects to end the game, you were looking for a specific thing with a location that you had a vague understanding of would be quite the breath of fresh air.
>>12595>Hold on, you're either making something original or you're copying Yume Nikki's designs. What you're describing doesn't sound original at all.
Please, re-read that part of my post, I'm talking about two different things there. What I meant is, people, thinking about this concept, misunderstood what made YN "good" and started to copy it again and again, which affected negatively the desire of users to play fangames anymore and later led to the so-called "non-formula" fangames, whose devs where looking for innovation.
>I still think it's just the authors being shit at what they do, I mean, look at Yuque. It's a recent fangame, it's as classic as it gets, but it's also pretty acclaimed. Perhaps it's not the style that is at fault.
I think the reason yuque is so acclaimed right now is because 98% of the fangames produced in the past 6 years where absolute, utter shit. I'd be interested in knowing what would of happened if it was posted back when we were sick of repetitive fangames, instead of a time where no fangame is produced anymore and the last ones don't really stand out the crowd.>>12596>the second kind tries to, "recreate", the original and is much harder to pull off successfully. Nobody would make an rpg with a lot of random girls with silly hats based on Japanese and other eastern myths and call it a Touhou fangame if it didn't include any touhou characters. If instead of an rpg, the game was in the bullet-hell genre, it could be considered a fangame.
I think there's a slight error here. You say that some games try to "recreate" the original, and the mention a rpg touhou fangame without 2hos. If it is rpg it isn't trying to recreate the original, it'd be the first kind of fangames you mentioned (volley ball example).
Anyway, Len'en is the example you're looking for here. Yes, it's not considered a fangame in the same sense as if it had touhou characters, however there isn't a single person who will deny you with a straight face that it is trying to do exactly what touhou did (in the same way yume niki "formula" fangames try to emulate yume nikki). Not even the author:
"Q1. Have you got any terms and conditions regarding the copyright of the Len'en Project (how we should upload material, etc.)?"
"A1. Since Len'en itself is my way of paying respect to the Touhou Project, there are no hard restrictions on fanworks, game footage etc."
>So what would make something a yn fangame in this scenario? More importantly, what would make something considered to be a good fangame? Just like in my touhou example, a bullet hell game with girls in silly hats based eastern myths shares a lot of superficial similarities with Touhou which is technically enough to call it a fangame.
The reason why people would call this kind of game a touhou fangame is simply because touhou popularized the format first. If YN format was popular and you had hundreds of games like that, everybody would agree that they're emulating yume nikki, because that's the game that popularized the idea first. Not many people remember now probably, but JRPG are all based of dragon quest and you still see even to this day games paying homage to it. Wizardry is the (grand)father of dungeon crawlers, and although forgotten now because the genre has died, all dungeon crawler players do know about it. And both of these pay homage to Ultima. Both nethack and angband are the living descendants of Hack and Moria, who were games trying to translate rouge into their own systems. That's the reason they're known as "rouge-like".
Time hasn't been gentle with any of those games at all, and the people who used to play them grew up and their children don't feel like playing old games for dead hardware. But they stand on their own as references simply because they popularized a concept the moment they were released.
What is interesting is the blurry line between "fangame" and "inspired by", at first I didn't think this game was a fangame, something similar happens with Undertale fan game makers, they have the fangames, the ex fangames and the "inspired by" that confuse everyone.
Oh please, Normietale fangames are just meme games like the original game, no one takes them seriously, name ONE Undertale fangame that is as notable as 2kki or .flow, you can't, also fuck you.
I feel like you misunderstood some of the points I was trying to make. >You say that some games try to "recreate" the original, and the mention a rpg touhou fangame without 2hos. If it is rpg it isn't trying to recreate the original, it'd be the first kind of fangames you mentioned (volley ball example).
My example of an rpg with girls in silly hats based on eastern myths was meant to show something that nobody would consider to be a fangame despite its similarities to touhou. It neither has the characters or the gameplay of touhou so nobody would have reason to think of it as a touhou fangame. The point i'm trying to make is that while every single dream diary game is considered to be a yn fangame, you need to be pretty specific for your game to be considered a touhou fangame. This is why, "innovative", fangames wouldn't be considered to be fangames in an environment where dream diary games are common. And by that, I don't mean dream diary games like yn, I mean the concept of a person being transported to another world in their dreams. If there where tons of action rpgs and danmaku games and puzzle games with this premise, the, "funnel", of what people do and don't call a yn fangame would be much smaller, just like with touhou. People don't call Touhou an Arkanoid fangame because there's hundreds of games like Breakout and Arkanoid. If the those types of games where extremely rare, and Zun called his game an Akanoid fangame, some people would probably complain about it not following the Arkanoid formula closely enough.>The reason why people would call this kind of game a touhou fangame is simply because touhou popularized the format first.
No. The format of Touhou games is danmaku games. People don't call every danmaku game a Touhou fangame, but everybody does call every dream diary game a yn fangame. Both yn and touhou fangames can be good and bad and both tend to be bad if they just copy superficial traits from what they're based on.
Oh, right, I definitely misunderstood the first part. After re-reading your point I noticed it was a sort of example and wasn't connected with what was before it. The lack of space makes things hard to follow.
>No. The format of Touhou games is danmaku games.
Ding dong, wrong. Most danmaku focuse in futuristic settings and feature robots or ships of some sort. Touhou involves girls fighting with magic, myth, mysticism, religion and natural aesthetics rather than space flights, mechas fighting each other or war of some sorts; that's what I meant by "format". It'd be like saying that any game about war is the same when there's medieval war, modern warfare, naval warfare, air battles, etc, and even among those you have real time strategy, first player shooters, coop, single, etc.
Touhou was not the first game to prioritize these traits (cotton popularized the idea first and introduced the Cute 'em up genre), but it's definitely the most massive one and why it'd be hard to produce anything similar without falling in the "inspired by 2ho". I mean, you'd either need to shave some of those traits or focus on something different.
>>12600>name ONE Undertale fangame that is as notable as 2kki or .flow
Undertale itself is, and it has a lot more fans than Yume Nikki, you missed my point though, I was talking about fangames, how notable those are is irrelevant, but since you wanted to play that card…
Okay fine, but that's besides my main point. If a fangame just copies surface traits of what it's based on, it wont be good. A lot of yn fangames fall into this trap and a lot of, "innovative", fangames are only called such because it falls into the very small niche genre of dream diary games. If eastern myth inspired games where considered to be their own genre and not mainly just a touhou thing it would be a lot harder to justify why your game is a Touhou fangame. Touhou was a pretty poor exmaple because it falls into its own niche. I don't even know why touhou was brought up. To make an arkanoid fangame, you need a lot of the surface traits of arkanoid. To make a good arkanoid fangame, you need understand how arkanoid works and try to recreate that in an interesting way. The same applies to yn. Too many people miss this point when making yn fangames. Both the innovators and copy paste people are doing it wrong.
>>12598>'d be interested in knowing what would of happened if it was posted back when we were sick of repetitive fangames, instead of a time where no fangame is produced anymore and the last ones don't really stand out the crowd.
Well, people would still probably acknowledge its pixel art and its underlying story, which is cohesive. while still being relatively fresh. I think.
>What I meant is, people, thinking about this concept, misunderstood what made YN "good" and started to copy it again and again, which affected negatively the desire of users to play fangames anymore and later led to the so-called "non-formula" fangames, whose devs where looking for innovation.
Today we learned that talentless people can ruin a good genre for everyone else. Or maybe not, I myself never really subscribed to that kind of thinking. Maybe you shouldn't either.
> would of
It's would've or would HAVE you moron.
>>12606>It's would've or would HAVE you moron.
Oh, sire, you has done quite the discovery here, innit? Me is so sorry, writings too fast and me is not bein' paid not even tuppence to gives a shit about you internet grammar quest, sire.
Seriously are you underage, or just retard? I t i s a t y p o.
People will always be able to recognize quality. The guy who you were responding to seems to reject the idea that quality is enduring. Something that is good is by definition timeless in my opinion. If it would be good five years ago, it would be good now. Whether or not people would be able to appreciate a good fangame that closely follows the original during a time when many bad fangames that copy the original were being released is a mystery, but people would eventually warm up to it if it is actually good. >>12606
Trying to invalidate somebodies opinion by pointing out a typo they made is really pathetic and juvenile.
>>12562>You wouldn't call someone who's worked on 2 or more big commercial releases arrogant for calling themselves a seasoned dev, so what about that makes me arrogant when I have about as much experience?
What do you consider a big commercial release? Because I think of, for instance, Final Fantasy, or something at the same revenue level, since that is what a big commercial release is. What I would call a seasoned dev is those people, people who are with big studios like Square Enix, or Blizzard, etc., who have been working with games in a professional business setting for many years. What I would like to point out is that you say you're as experienced as these big named studios, if thats what you're referring to. This is where I find the arrogance.
>>12562>You wouldn't call someone who's worked on 2 or more big commercial releases arrogant for calling themselves a seasoned dev, so what about that makes me arrogant when I have about as much experience?
You don't have as much experience because you don't have two or more big commercial releases, regardless of what your collabs are, saying that sending music files or deigning characters for a few games makes you as good as a developer with two big commercial releases is delusional, if that was true Rindre would be fucking Nintendo, but she decides to be humble, that's how it should be.
You have a couple free RPG Maker games online, and the most notable one on Steam.
Don't get me wrong that isn't small, hell compared with most of tumblr devs you are big, but you're nowhere near where you believe you are.
>>12610> You need to be AAA to truly have experience
Lol you stupid fuck
it's not "collabs", she was hired by different VN studios you contemptible autistic faggot
I quoted her, so you just called Noyemi a stupid fuck, we're talking about big commercial releases here, though, not AAA.>>12615>it's not "collabs", she was hired by different VN studios you contemptible autistic faggot
Granted, still not her product and submitting assets does not equal the experience of leading two big commercial releases.
Nice agressive white knighting guys, it doesn't look bad at all.
You dont have to be AAA to have experience, she's just not as experienced as giant professional franchises. Its just facts.
also big release does not always equal AAA. She's never had a big commercial release, which she compared herself to
To bring this back to topic: I think the problem with the game is that it emulates the gameplay of YN but feels nothing like it. I don't think that any of the enviroments are dreamlike at all, which I think is one of the most important aspects of this type of game. The atmosphere is really lacking. This makes me feel like I'm just wandering around in a big empty house with nothing going on. Am I the only one getting the same vibe?
That was already said like 10 times by now.
I dunno about that. Feels like the topic has been mostly what a fangame is and how competent Noyemi is.
Maybe some of the meaning was lost in the wording, but it's not like it matters at this point. Since Noyemi is apparently too cool for us unappreciative heathens, giving actual feedback only gets us as far.
Nah, mishka always leaves our vomitive shithole and comes back when emotions have cooled down. It'd be pretty lame to say one random guy made a dev go away because the game didn't fit the standards the player had in mind.
Also owl, you're next.
same situation different paint with less names
2 years ago people were complaining about meta threads and mado recolors while wanting mado recolors (i remember a bleet post on Clowder's game about all the poopooposts)http://archive.uboachan.net/fg/res/66.xhtmlhttp://archive.uboachan.net/flow/res/2.xhtml
even sooner than that
This is an important thing to bring up. I haven't really thought about the world itself as much as the npcs.
To further clarify my thoughts on the game… I realize I'm sort of harsh here, but y'know what's the point in hiding the truth. At least the truth as I see it. Feel free to disagree.
In this sort of game, you really need the enviroments and characters to catch your interest, because that's pretty much 99% of the experience. You sure as hell don't play YN games because you're looking for challenging gameplay. You play them to take a peek into another world. To let your imagination soar, even for just a moment.
If the game just looks like a bunch of government buildings… well, lets just say my imagination might just as well stay home. The game just feels really sterile and dull. It doesn't challenge my imagination, it kills it.
Yeah it coasts along entirely on the faux PC98 aesthetics, but that's surface level.
>>12615>Sending music files to itch.io renpyfags gives as much experience as handling two or more big commercial game releases.
Spare me. Even if they actually were big name studios, spare me.
Sending files to a commercial release is NOT the same as being behind a big commercial release, it would play into her musical experience, not game development experience.
It's just a prank bro
I'm very disappointed in you.
So, Mishka actually left the shithole after all, this fag was right >>12624
I haven't seen Owl around here either, I wonder if any other users left.
Nah, owl has been inactive for a long while (I haven't seen any update in his site) but he still comes from time to time, although I can't say how often.
Still alive and kicking.