The Game development: The Guide V 2.0 thread is practically the same…
It was novel at first (back in 2012), but now it just seems like something a dev faltering in popularity does for some minor extra attention as they desperately cling to what few interested parties remain (since most left because there hasn't been a release yet).
I disagree somewhat.
If a dev says that their game is no longer a fangame and proceeds to not post in YN tags/asks that nobody treat it as a fangame, I see no problem with it.
If they announce it and then keep trying to attract YN fans, that's when it's annoying.
YNFGs are really easy to reel in players if done moderately well. Disconnecting from that predictable fanbase is a bold move. Plus it's nice to see a dev realize their game is just too removed from ynfgs to qualify as one anymore. Again, as long as they stop trying to get other ynfg fans involved in it.
>>10308>Again, as long as they stop trying to get other ynfg fans involved in it
That's pretty contradictory, since they formed they fanbase from the YN fanbase. Basically, they leeched people from the fandom for their fandom already.
Also, years ago this didn't happen, why is it (almost) magically only happening around this time? It seems really fishy.
And I'm not sure if most of these "non-fangames" could have been qualified as such even before they decided to take "the bold step"; they seemed more like trying to blend their projects with YN classic ideas to still be leeching from the fanbase while being qualified as "avant-garde fangames". So that's pretty much the same.
I don't want to sound harsh with this; I'm sure some devs actually didn't foresee the idea of stepping out of the boat, but it can't be denied either way that at least half of these were only games with the "dream & get effects! totally yeme nukken desu!" idea smashed in it.
>why is it just happening now?
Possibly the attention shifting away from FGs to "RPG Horror" (I think that's a bad word for it because they're rarely RPGs, but eh). So instead of trying to shoehorn YN mechanics into more general-looking games, it's switched to hasty re-thinking and re-design to appeal more to general "RPG Horror" players and try to get on youtube or something.
It's a cynical way of looking at it, I think, so the actual explanation is probably a bit more benign. Who knows.
I'm on of the fangame devs who recently decided their games are no longer ynfgs. I can't explain everyone else's motivations at all so this is just one take on it.
As I've worked on my games I've wanted to add in things that felt really non-ynlike, at least in my opinion. I never even considered the thought I was 'leeching' off of the fanbase for making these changes and decisions though. I just came to the realization my games don't fit ynfgs anymore so I shouldn't call them that. I figured people would be more upset that my games strayed further and further but I kept calling them ynfgs to gain popularity/stay relevant in the yn community.
>>10314>we start talking about general stuff and we end talking about specific things specific devs. did with specific details about these.
This is the third time we had this thread and it never happened. If you're talking about the mocking thread, that's exactly why it is there.
>/fg/'s first page is full of that…
I wonder why is it.
>Giving bad advice on purpose
I see this one come up a lot. Who gives bad advice on purpose? There's bad and wishy-washy advice to be sure, but how does anyone know if it's on purpose?
It seems like a lot of overseas devs like to stray away from the original Yume Nikki formula, while devs inside Japan like to stick to the original "Do the dream, do the effects, profit!" formula of the original YN.
It's something I've noticed and is very entertaining to me.
>>10320>there hasn't been a single straightforward accusation>some probably didn't even consider changing their fangames into independent games the moment they started making them>still doesn't change the fact about leeching the fandom
That's the only curious thing with your statement. You seem to keep saying devs who change their games are taking advantage of the ynfg fandom, even if they didn't originally plan on changing their games initially. It sounds like you're saying that if a dev ever decides to change their game's category, they're stealing away the attention of ynfg fans whether or not they actually intended to.
If people like a certain dev's work and that dev decides to break away from the fandom, what, does that mean that those fans are lost forever? Or that it's unfair that they inadvertently use ynfgs as a springboard to making their own original work? Are you concerned that, because these devs are breaking away, the amount of fangames will decrease and the ynfg fandom will become stale? I'm of the opinion that as long as they're making good games it's actually pretty cool that there's more diversity going on. Plus if they say they started as a ynfg dev, I would think it would draw more attention to YN and ynfgs as a whole; wouldn't people be interested in/impressed by the inspiration for the new games coming out?
I just want to understand your reasoning about it. It's one thing to say that fangames being turned into original/separate works is irritating if you want more fangames, but saying these games leech off of the fandom is another.
(I'm just legitimately curious, I'm not here for whatever drama bull is going on)
>It sounds like you're saying that if a dev ever decides to change their game's category, they're stealing away the attention of ynfg fans whether or not they actually intended to.
No shit, what the fuck did you read.
What I said is actually fact, and not an opinion. Whether you like it or not, those devs earned their fanbase from the YN fanbase; and while working on other things aside from fangames won't "steal" the attention of this fandom, they earned theirs through this one. You can't deny this. It's just a real fact, I didn't state or even imply shit with that, I don't even know why you are jumping on this so butthurtly.
>Are you concerned that, because these devs are breaking away, the amount of fangames will decrease and the ynfg fandom will become stale?
Oh, are you saying this isn't happening? Whether or not devs break away, the number of fangames that aren't dropped and receive an update periodically is almost null.
The fact that people now aren't as interested in fangames as they were years ago may just prove that the major part of this fandom was just a bunch of posers and that since the attention is in other things (say, horror, as other anon mentioned previously). Devs either feel like they have to jump aboard in that boat too, or maybe they want attention. You can never tell.
It's ok if you want to start an horror game, but turning a fangme into a non-fangame JUST in this time is what seems fishy in my opinion. They're different things, but since devs already know this kind of thing isn't as appealing anymore as it used to be, they may feel like half-stepping away from it while still remaining inside to receive more input from these people.
>there hasn't been a single straightforward accusation
Also, why did you quote this part when there isn't a fucking single accusation? I haven't read a fucking nick in all of this and no post in this thread ever implied anyone in any way.
Can we stop derailing the goddamn thread already?
Your angry diatribe aside, it's not derailing since we're on topic about things you're tired of seeing. Unless you just wanted to air you grievances and leave it at that?
In accordance to what >>10318
said, I think it's more of a result of the Western base being more open to mixing up the typical ynfg formula. As a result western devs are experimenting more and maybe deciding they've strayed too far from yn. If you want dedicated fangames it looks like during this time the eastern base is better to follow is all.
Also you keep contradicting yourself by accusing devs of intentionally breaking away to get popularity or something but saying things like >you can never tell
Anyway it's usless discussing this further since we're at loggerheads it looks like. Was just trying to hear more of how you felt about it but it's clear you'd rather call anyone engaging with you 'butthurt' and 'touched' and act like your opinion is being attacked than discuss anything agreeably.
>>10326>Your angry diatribe aside
lol I didn't know I was angry ranting, thanks for telling me I didn't even realize I was mad or something. Also, if that were the change, how does that change anything I said?
>it's not derailing since we're on topic about things you're tired of seeing
I already said what I'm tired of seeing, going over this again and again is just derailment and drama generator.
>Unless you just wanted to air you grievances and leave it at that?>Anyway it's usless discussing this further since we're at loggerheads it looks like>Hey why you want to stop discussing? well let's stop discussing.
>Also you keep contradicting yourself by accusing devs of intentionally breaking away to get popularity or something but saying things like "you can never tell">You're contradicting reality by not knowing what someone is thinking
I only meant I don't know what devs are thinking, their actions are the same whether we know or not. It's a fact shit is happening, I was gentle enough as to hope some aren't really doing this on purpose.
By that logic I can say you're contradicting yourself since you don't know what I'm thinking.
>Was just trying to hear more of how you felt about it but it's clear you'd rather call anyone engaging with you 'butthurt' and 'touched' and act like your opinion is being attacked than discuss anything agreeably.
Now, I thought it was you acting like your opinion is being attacked when I said "leeching". In fact, I even explained here what it was here >>10309>They formed they fanbase from the YN fanbase. Basically, they leeched people from the fandom for their fandom already.
There was no way it could be messed into "if a dev ever decides to change their game's category, they're stealing away the attention of ynfg fans whether or not they actually intended to", as you did. Pinpointing that even when I stated what I meant by it seemed way too defensive, so that's why I called you butthurt. Apparently I rushed in assuming so.
I actually agree in you with something, devs in the western world do deviate more away from the classcal formula, and that's ok; however that isn't my point. In fact, I didn't even imply that bothers me in any way. The only thing I could see in all the things I said that could be interpreted in that way if you twist my words enough, is>it can't be denied either way that at least half of these were only games with the "dream & get effects! totally yeme nukken desu!" idea smashed in it.
Which doesn't even "attack" the idea of avant-garde games in on itself.
I'm not denying that what anon is saying is true, at least I don't think I am, I really just wanted to hear their reasoning behind it.>>10327
I meant angry diatribe as in all of the expletives and the butthurt comments, you came off as sounding really frustrated and aggressive. From my perspective anyway.
The entire reason I started talking with you was because I didn't understand what you were saying 100%. I clearly misunderstood you and we ended up veering off course. Sorry about that. I really was just curious. I get where you're coming from now.
Indeed my friend, indeed.
Game Development The Guide thread is still master race.
Seems like we just all have a chip on our shoulder when it comes to the "old guard" and such, we're angry that they appear to have forsaken us and the tension is starting to come to a head. That's all I'll say on that.
>Stuff you're tired of seeing
The latest updates to 2kki added some really gorgeous worlds and nice music, so I'd have to say that all the amateurish "babby's first game assets" in pretty much 75% of the games is something I can't really take anymore. My time to play every single clone game is really getting limited.
May I offer my opinion on the problem I see with YN fangames nowadays? I'll do it anyway.
I think the biggest problem is that most of the games are basically the same game with a different look. This would probably be fine if the type of game we were making had some kind of gameplay that made up for this, but YN basically has no gameplay at all.
I think that if anyone wants to make a YN fangame that anybody that played more than a couple of fangames actually wants to play, you're going to have to add some kind of gameplay element.
People new to YN probably wouldn't mind playing a couple of the fangames that doesn't do anything new gameplay-wise, but it gets increasingly old running around doing nothing after a number of games (depending on your patience), no matter how pretty it is.
I think that this problem is the biggest reason that the fandom is getting less and less people. Most people that played enough games get tired of them unless they have godly patience with doing nothing.
>I think the biggest problem is that most of the games are basically the same game with a different look. This would probably be fine if the type of game we were making had some kind of gameplay that made up for this, but YN basically has no gameplay at all.
Because they're fangames. You know the Pokemon franchise? Although it's dressed different with a different story, it's still the same old formula of catching them all.
But then again, each Pokemon game that comes out has new gameplay elements to keep players from getting bored and continuing to buy the games, so you're not necessarily wrong. More developers could stand to put their own original content and ideas into their games, but if you stray too far it won't even look like a fangame anymore. And that's what pissed the people above off.
Just because it's a fangame you don't necessarily have to make a exact copy of the original gameplaywise. For example, wouldn't you consider Dream vs Dream a fangame?
I'm not saying you have to be that radical, but if you ever want me to start playing fangames again more than once a year, you'll need more than a wanderfest to get me interested, no matter how pretty the wanderfest is.
YN was a wanderfest. And that was fine, because it was the first of it's kind. It worked because it was new and unique. But it's a type of game that does not stand being played over and over. You need to put something in the wanderfest to make it more interesting.
You can still HAVE a wanderfest, but you can also have gameplay, and you SHOULD. If I ever make another YN fangame I will definitely have some kind of gameplay.
You can still have all the things that made YN unique, like weird locations, mysterious creatures, exploration, dreamlike landscapes and the general mood of the game. Fangame is a broad enough term that you don't need to make a copy of the original to be able to call it a fangame.
DvD is a fangame because it uses characters from Yume Nikki, specifically meant as a tribute to Yume Nikki. Other games are fangames because it's made in the same style as YN.
I'm not saying you're wrong, you pull many valid points. There's over 100 fangames these days full of the same exact thing. It's getting old, but there's only so far you can go from the source formula before it stops being a fangame.
Gonna make a new thread for this debate, since I'm quite interested in knowing how far others think a fangame can go before it stops being a fangame.
this image is making me laugh way harder than it should
but yeah especially when there's a method to walk diagonally it's a teeny bit lazy spose