No.7590
Let me guess: "fighting" means working a soulless wageslave job and being exploited by the system? I dont mean to shame people who work, but its not exactly a heroic struggle.
I think "fighting" to you also means to accept laws and regulations of society, to stop complaining and do what people expect
How convenient, that this heroic fight to the death doesnt involve any *actual* risks.
How convenient that it mostly conforms to the system.
>BECAUSE. THERE. IS. NO. OTHER. OPTION!!!!!!!!!
People really like to apply the word fight to cancer patients as well. As if its heroic to go on another year of chemo,
of course you will go on another year of chemo if the only other option is death.
Maybe you're not courageous. Maybe you're just scared.
No.7593
>>7590His fight probably includes going to the gym and talking to people who don’t like you about things you’re not interested in so you fit into society
No.7604
The cruel reality that surrounds me cannot be fought because beyond having a girlfriend and friends, and asking myself what I really want and would make me happy is that I want a community and social cohesion I can belong to. I can put in the effort to be financially abundant and stable (in reality I will be 5 digits in debt and work a shitty office job) but it means nothing to me if it's among an ugly antisocial society which is what I live in, why would I use my tax dollars to support a culture and people I have no connection to and loathe to say the least. Running off into the woods and founding a hamlet with my internet buddies won't solve anything either and is still sticking your head into a hole. Everyone here has their reasons for being depressed or shut in, and couldn't overcome the traumas that seized their wills and souls. It's a bad argument in the context it's usually used in but how does my isolated lifestyle effect you or anyone? I don't wish ill will on you, you sound naively idealistic and clueless to how far a person can fall via reasons out of their control, I used to say the same things and you're right that some people like this are going through phases or can get back up again soon but that's just some.
No.7617
>>7615Living the dream. How did you get it?
No.7618
Dad gave me $1K so that I could gain some experience on the stock market. He expected me to lose it all, I turned it into $30K and bought myself a house in our home country. During this time my mom quit her job and started her own business, and dad bought some property in our home country. I'll be owning roughly around 6 apartments if my parents died today. But my dad plans on working for 5-6 more years, his goal is 16 apartments + medium size store at the bottom of the apartment complex. Either way my life will be stable unless the US decides to one day invade my home country which I doubt they'd have the balls to do it. Mind you we aren't rich, we are just smart with our money. Instead of buying 1 town house in the US, my dad bought 6 apartments in our home country instead. Quality of life isn't any worse either, much safer than the US, free healthcare. Only thing that's better in the US is the pay and electronics being cheap as fuck. My parents still judge me for being a NEET but since I'm the only child they've realized that it's either me NEETing or suicide so they don't want to mess with me. I'm being as frugal as I can so they don't get affected by my lifestyle. I'm going to move into my mom's house in a few months to help her out with chores, housework, and possibly work for her a few hours a day. If I don't like it I can always go back to my house and enjoy myself.
My parents are really disappointed though but that doesn't concern me. They expected me to become a programmer or something in the US making 6 digits owning a single house, starting a family, etc. They always say "that's not a way to live, you'll eventually get bored, working isn't always about the money" but I know I'm built different so I dismiss whatever they say to me. My uncle and grandfather was a full-time NEET, I grew up with them so maybe that's why I'm one. I can't relate to most NEETs, I've always had friends, hanged out with girls, I wasn't an outcast. I became a NEET because I felt like working 8 hours a day to come home only to watch Netflix for 3 hours wasn't a great life. I'd rather go to prison or be homeless than work.
No.7619
Personally if I didn't have dual citizenship, I would join the military. Serve for 4-8 years, preferably in the Navy or the Air Force. Save all my money. Get on VA disability (at least 40%). Try to get a citizenship in a cheap country by marrying someone in South East Asia. Probably Philippines or Thailand. You'd roughly get out with 80K USD if you serve for 4 years and 200K USD if you served for 8 years. Put all that money into index funds, get on VA disability money ($400-500 a month is more than enough). And live in South East Asia with a cute chick.
No.7631
Turkey
No.7633
Have you ever considered moving to Turkey? That money would make you live like a king here. I've been in the US too, it's much better country to live in but our currency is shitty enough to let you live in more luxury.
No.7634
I'm the guy who turned $1k into $30k. I'm about to move back there in 2-3 months if you are talking to me. I'm Turkish American. Lived in Turkey for 12 years and in the US for 11 years.
I just plan on surviving frankly. I have no interest in material possession, unwanted friendships/relationships (I'll only become friends with alike minded people, I won't be friends with materialistic people) so I won't have to spend money on friendships/relationships.
Also if things go south I can always move back to my mom's place and rent my apartment and NEET that way. Which isn't a bad idea considering my mother doesn't bother me about being a NEET.
Only problem will be my relatives. I feel like they'll all be a nuisance judging me for my lifestyle every time they visit my mom (that's why living alone is better). They are all jealous of me because they think living in the US is like living in heaven where you have sex parties every day. They'll probably give me the "why the fuck did you come back to this shithole" look but thankfully I have the ability to shut off my emotions whenever I want to and not deal with them.
I'm not very familiar with image boards idk how to quote/tag people so sorry for that.
No.7636
>>7634>They are all jealous of me because they think living in the US is like living in heaven where you have sex parties every day.How I wish it were a paradise here. People romanticize America far too much. Turkey has some very nice mountains at the very least.
No.7637
>>7636should I visit turky if I ever get that chance?
No.7638
You should definitely visit Turkey. Currency exchange is fucked up, so it's a paradise for tourists. Turkish girls love white men so there's that too, they love european/american foreigners, they'll fall for you instantly.
If you really like it there consider saving up money by working a wagie job and living in your mom's basement at the same time. It'll eventually pay off and you'll be able to buy a house there, get citizenship, mad pussy or dick (if you are a girl), and try to make $200-$250 online or have cashflow that'll grant you that much a month.
No.7639
I fight every day to not kill myself. Either way I’m young and my current lifestyle is sustainable for the next couple of years giving me time to stabilise my awful mental health and a lot of free time to work on my art. My plan is to eventually go back to art school when I’m in a mental state where I won’t think everyone is plotting against me and judging me behind my back to the point where I constantly think about killing them all.
No.7640
>>7639Lets hope you don't get rejected
No.7641
>>7639dont go back to art school. i dont know if you're talented or not, but if you actually are, i promise you theres nothing good thats going to come of chasing fame in media or social media whatever. even if you start to get the flow of cash, commissions, attention, whatever you're seeking, its all empty empty empty in the end. very empty especially the connections. always trying to climb some social ladder to get what? more normalfags who dont fucking get it looking at your art. what a waste of time. i used to be mildly popular on twitter when "schizo core" was at its peak during covid 2020ish. blew my ego up without realizing fully that the attention came from an aesthetic, not from my talent. then i got weirder and more schizo irl, real schizo, and dropped off online. now i have my own site i maintain. the long story short is that if you are an actual schizoneet talented sufferer please dont waste yourself on normalshits. me? i hate my life and i want to die – at least i get to neet around all day and play with myself in my mind thru my art. you are your own best friend.
No.7643
>>7641It sucks that this was your experience but twitter is not representative of meatspace. If that anon actually managed to get out there the experience would be different. Maybe it would be bad in a different way, maybe it would be beneficial. Only way to know is to try.
No.7644
Sorry if this is uncouth, may I ask what your site is?
No.7653
>>7641I don’t really want to achieve any kind of fame or whatever, I know my art is bad and no one cares about it, I don’t think I have any kind of real talent, and most of the time I have no idea what I’m doing. I can’t even draw properly a lot of the time. All things considered I should just die. All I want to do is create and find meaning in this hellish existence. I just want to feel like I’m good enough I don’t really know what I’m saying I’m not entirely stable at the moment. Idk what the best course of action is I hate myself so fucking much and everything around me I don’t know if I’ll even be able to go to school without snapping and hurting someone but I need to improve my art it’s one of the few reasons to keep existing I will dedicate however long I have left to live to improve and create someone that can touch someone deeply on some level. Either way chances are I’ll be unable to even function properly in any social setting I will probably remain a recluse going back to school is probably not gonna happen. I might not be good at art now but I will dedicate my life to becoming good enough and no one will look down on me again. I’m feeling nauseous and delirious now it wasn’t a good idea to think
No.7675
>>7590So… instead you decide to become a slave of your own self indulgent tendencies.
Doesnt sound much better to me, you are just flipping the coin.
No.7691
I am at the homeless stage of NEET. It gets a lot worse and when you're in your 30s you look back on your life with regret.
No.7705
>>7639why would you go to art school when A) it's a scam, and B) art is now obsolete because of AI
No.7706
>>7705Some people can get into art school on scholarship or depending on income level on a need basis and not pay tuition or have very low tuition. Some people live in countries with tuition free higher education. Art school can be fruitless but it can also be a great place to network or at the very least be in a community of other artists which has a lot of benefits. It would be really stupid to go into a lot of debt over a middling art school but not everyone is in that situation. And AI is overblown, it's not creative. Being able to make something in the style of another artist isn't the same thing as creating new aesthetic styles.
No.7713
OP here, life threw me a bunch of curveballs and I'm back where I started… The ride never ends, boys…
No.7745
It would probably benefit everyone here to read into stoic philosophy.
No one decided to be here, you just are and it just so happens you got a shitty hand. Now it's your responsibility to make your situation as good as possible, that's literally it. We don't even know what any of this actually is, all you can do is find some sort of peace for yourself.
https://youtu.be/IdTMDpizis8 No.7751
>>7745Something strikes me as odd about the concept of becoming enamored with stoicism in a literal sense in that it is completely removed from its context. Much of the philosophy and words of past sages have little bearing on modern life. The industrial revolution ruined almost any semblance of tranquility that could be found in past traditions that would court isolation in a positive way. There are no forests to retreat to, no stream for me to build a home on, I am not free, many of us genuinely are trapped in our rooms completely alienated from our humanity with nowhere and nothing to retreat to. We are left grasping, absurdly, though beautifully, at what little we may have.
I also don't relate to some hopped up meathead on a talkshow, his world and experience are alien to my own, we have nothing in common, his advice lacks bearing.
This isn't to say all traditions are fruitless, but the stoics really were a product of their time and place and not a single person I've seen enamored with stoicism today has genuinely managed to practice it. Rather, the people having an affair with this school of Greeks are just as emotionally driven and erratic as everyone else if not moreso, this is evident by this post appearing on this board. No one posting here is what we would call, "well adjusted."
No.7762
>>7751I find this post very surface level in its interpretation of an entire school of philosophy, and also a little bit smarter than thou and spiteful to said subscribers to stoicism
No.7763
>>7762It comes from someone who used to adhere to stoicism. Many of the emotions that stoicism colors irrational are entirely rational to experience and the characterization of them as irrational is harmful to the self. It is a rational response to grieve when loved ones die, to suppress and "overcome" such grief is to prevent oneself from moving forward when the only way to live effectively with grief is acceptance of the event overtime and self-care.
I'm using an extreme example and thus so to illustrate the problem, it is applicable broadly to the school as it is presented online in popular culture. There is no "overcoming" only feeling wholly and honestly and moving on regardless with time. Character building comes in weakness and strength and it takes a strong man to allow himself to be weak.
Yet, I see internet influencers and their cadre embracing pain and suffering like its a virtue while rejecting care and compassion consistently, all the while they lash out against others. The video posted in this very thread doesn't incite any acts of rebellion and thus claiming of true sovereignty in its viewership when they are faced with adversity. Instead, the video uses a boss, a person already in a position of power, as a virtuous figure who is able to overcome challenges by facing them head on; despite the reality that the challenges the boss is facing are surmountable by him within his context. The argument presented does nothing for people who physically can't for reasons of social class or physical inability overcome such adversity that faces them. Our society is not equal, there are actually things that no measure of mental fortitude can save you from as these are not problems that can be thought there way out of as individuals.
It would be illustrative to throw the man in the video in a cage and leave him there alone for months so he can "overcome," it would really show how "stoic" and "sensible" people like him really are.
No.7772
>>7763Your initial post on stoicism was one discrediting the old sages and yet when told your points are surface level your entire rebuttal is based on that of a modern day internet filtering of stoicism, as if actual stoicism and the current social media filtered "pop stoicism" (or Modern Stoicism as it is sometimes egregiously referred to) you speak of are one in the same; as if any philosophy and its pop culture interpretation are one in the same.
The issue with your argument is that you're clearly conflating what genuine stoicism is and what the surface level representation of stoicism is. Stoicism is not just about retreating to forests or building a home on a steam, nor is it about admonishing things such as grieving or moving forward (I'm aware this was a hyperbolic example but it was an example nonetheless.) It's not a static philosophy completely stuck in the ancient Greek and Roman sages ways of life which are no longer applicable today. It, along with every old philosophy has evolved considerably since conception, with many branches (such as the so called modern stoicism we're ACTUALLY talking about.)
To me you and the
meathead are both one of the same, talking about a whole school of philosophy while only really having pop culture level knowledge of one hyper-americanized/internetized branch. A few youtube videos, maybe a few articles, maybe even one of those modern books that attempt to cram hundreds of texts worth of knowledge and ideas into one summary book.
I am not a stoic nor do I inherently agree with everything stoicism is about. I also don't claim to even know everything about stoicism. I simply think it'd be a lot better if you took a more neutral 'I know that I know nothing' approach to these sorts of things. An approach commonly attributed to Socrates, a big influence on stoicism, funnily enough.
No.7773
>Your initial post on stoicism was one discrediting the old sages and yet when told your points are surface level your entire rebuttal is based on that of a modern day internet filtering of stoicism, as if actual stoicism and the current social media filtered "pop stoicism" (or Modern Stoicism as it is sometimes egregiously referred to) you speak of are one in the same; as if any philosophy and its pop culture interpretation are one in the same.
The issue with your argument is that you're clearly conflating what genuine stoicism is and what the surface level representation of stoicism is.
There can only be a conflation if genuine stoicism was in the room with us to begin with, it wasn't and still isn't. As it stands my statements are consistent with what harmful garbage is in the room that I'm trying to shut down as I've seen it destroy people including dear friends. It starts with some dumb video like this and ends with suicide or worse after some misguided young man decides to emulate something he can't be without realizing that the internet personality he's trying to emulate is manipulating him for his own gain.
>Stoicism is not just about retreating to forests or building a home on a steam, nor is it about admonishing things such as grieving or moving forward
My comment about retreating to the forests, etc were not entirely aimed at stoicism but rather the retreat into and embrace of various philosophy as a "solution" to the fatalistic physical reality many people face. In the context of the aforementioned pop-philosophy this makes sense. My comments are here with the intent to humanize the individual facing such adversity instead of tell them that they should just push even harder while directing them to false prospects. I have been that human before, and whether anyone here would believe me or not there was nothing I could do and nothing many can do until circumstance outside our control changed(es.) Stating otherwise is a denial of the humanity of such people, it is just another form of gaslighting and abuse. (Not saying you are doing this, I am explaining the meaning of my words.)
>It's not a static philosophy completely stuck in the ancient Greek and Roman sages ways of life which are no longer applicable today. It, along with every old philosophy has evolved considerably since conception, with many branches…
Yes. I don't mean to repeat this to drive the point home, it's just to make the connection. The reason nuanced stoicism didn't have bearing in my words is because it wasn't present. I'm expecting to shut down 2016 eternal september internet culture that I find harmful when I'm attacking a post like the original video. My post was thrown out wantonly and without care or refinement, with some emotion, unlike what I would write in a more formal or nuanced context.
>To me you and the meathead are both one of the same, talking about a whole school of philosophy while only really having pop culture level knowledge of one hyper-americanized/internetized branch. A few youtube videos, maybe a few articles, maybe even one of those modern books that attempt to cram hundreds of texts worth of knowledge and ideas into one summary book.
I am not a stoic nor do I inherently agree with everything stoicism is about. I also don't claim to even know everything about stoicism. I simply think it'd be a lot better if you took a more neutral 'I know that I know nothing' approach to these sorts of things. An approach commonly attributed to Socrates, a big influence on stoicism, funnily enough.
Thankyou for recognizing the failings of the person in the video and the pop-philosophy alongside it. This was my entire aim in this thread and I'm happy it has taken root, regardless of perceptions of myself. I disagree that it's better to be neutral. We are surrounded be people who are not and never will be impartial, neutral or caring in their claims. These people have effects on us and those we love, even if we ourselves as individuals do not put stock in them. Either we take a stance or we get crushed under theirs. Thrasymachus is wrong in truth, but when you're surrounded by him it doesn't really matter much. I hope the pictures provided can at least show that I'm not a complete fool, I've read a little over half of the books shown and have attempted to read or partially read almost all of them over the past 9 years. My words are not coming from a vacuum. I don't know everything, but I have earned my stake in the conversation.
No.7776
>>7588You don't get it, op. If you've never been in a situation like ours, you will never get it. Go fuck yourself.
No.7785
>>7776OP is a stinky rat.
No.7786
>>7590when i was 13y i used to think like that too
Grow up
No.7787
>>7590why dont you try to fight for working rights then? unionize bitch ass neet
but first you gotta find a job
No.7788
>>7786Are you just trolling? What are you even trying to say. "its wrong bc youre immature grow up" is not really saying anything.
>>7787>why dont you try to fight for working rights then? I would tell you what the other anon said, grow up. except I'll actually explain why.
Thinking that any kind of political advocacy does anything is an immature way of thinking. The individual does not have control over such things.
A lot of people like to think that they are making a difference when they vote or protest or do any kind of advocacy, the obvious reality is that you don't have any power. Realizing your powerlessness is a very significant thing that I think everyone should do.
maybe you would argue that it doesn't matter if a person can make a difference or not, what matters is that they try. I would disagree to some extent, you could put all your effort into an impossible goal and if it's not fun to do that, you will be miserable.
Not participating in the workforce is civil disobedience AND it actually makes you happy, so wouldn't that be the ideal thing to do in any case?
No.7789
>>7788how to say you're american without saying you're american
No.7790
ure ancap? lol
No.7791
>>7788what we should do instead of trying ?
No.7792
>>7590you're victim of a system that is on par with a human meat grinder
i understand you feeling like that, but dont really think its completely hopeless (unless you live in the US)
you should try first seeking psychiatric help and MAYBE try to leave a place like this where neets try to cope all day. then you can definitely try to understand why this is a human meat grinder. it'll give you some light on what to do.
hope you make it past that phase my man
No.7793
>>7791Holy shit does it feel impossibly to actually fucking improve when you are in a rut. sometimes I feel like this looser, just fucking around t'il I die. Sure I want to improve but where does one begin?
And sure I can improve but what then? I have gotten better but damn do I feel like it doesn't matter; I ask am I just too dumb to make myself something; even then I wonder if self-improvement is just another form of procrastinating, living is more than this I hope, but damn my life is sifting away from me.
No.7794
>>7793Why do you keep living?
No.7796
>>7792>(unless you live in the US) Cries in greasy carb filled burger tears. How I yearn for Patagonia, if only I were born Chilean.
No.7802
>>7788Things have constantly changed with advocacy combined with other favtors though. It's not about individual accomplishment, at least not mainly. We'd still have kids being torn up in textile machines and 14 hours of work per day if nothing had ever changed. Sure we've backslid because of rich ghouls trying their damndest lately but the fact they had to try so hard to slip in child labor but they can get in trouble with the government now is already proof things can be potentially fixed.
never 100% as there will always be problems to address of course. I'm just pointing out things are obviously better in a lot of regards specifically because people fought for them to be improved. many of them died for the sake of that.that's not immature in the slightest.
No.7809
The government is taking my freedom away, soon everything I love will be taken away from me. Unless I become a criminal and part of a gang or the black market I will have nothing to live for soon. So I see no reason to stop being a NEET recluse. I'm just waiting to die at this point.
No.7810
>>7618My dad gave me $2000 to get experience on the stock markets, but I made bad investments, had to sell at a loss and soon lost all of my money. There is no escape for me.
No.7813
>>7810that sucks I wouldn't say give up, but if I could ask how long did you hold the investment if it was less than a year its likely that the stock dropped for the time, which may be scary, but stocks fluctuate drastically. Stocks are unfortunately very unstable anon.
No.7878
I need to talk to real people. i realize i dont even remember any useful advice i read because it has no significance, nothing makes it stand out and memorable. Maybe i just have dementia from isolation and not even using my brain to play games… i think it’s the just the latter……
No.7975
>>7974Glad you don't hate us anymore. I wish you the best in life.
No.7983
>>7974So that whole post was projection? Ngl that's funny
No.7993
>>7787Unions are blood sucking parasites. Wherever there's a union, you don't don't really have a choice but to be part of it, and they have large membership fees. Then, they end up focusing on all kinds of completely irrelevant libtard shit instead of the one thing they're supposed to. Organizations aren't in a charitable mood after meeting their demands, so they don't give anything except what is demanded of them. It creates an antagonistic relationship between worker and employee.
That's why teachers, who spend 7+ hours a day in school, not only don't get free lunches, they don't get offered food to buy. A lot of suburb schools are in a random field too, and you're not supposed to leave the building in the middle of the day. So you really have no option other than to bring your food from home, which isn't how socialism is supposed to work. They don't even get free coffee. You have to bring your own. With unions, you get the worst of both socialism and corporatism, without any of the good points of either.
No.7996
>>7993thank you, anon
a union recently emerged at my workplace, and i seriously considered joining, because i did not see any drawbacks
now i know better
No.7997
>>7993a $20 amazon coupon has been sent to your inbox
No.8007
>>7615Your living the life anon.
